OT: can we talk about car bums? Options

[emerygt350]

What happened? The volt is a hatchback but still, new cars have way too much junk in the trunk. Is it style? Safety? I don't know. No attractive car in my mind has a big bum. Even the 911s rather large rear has grown to outrageous proportions. The amx had a big one for it's time but only compared to it's cohort.

[Superhawk996]

It’s all driven by Rear Impact standards coming from NHTSA and IIHs which have been raising the (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif) end in order to comply. This has been going on for decades. Side impact standards are responsible for the inordinately high belt lines and thick b-pillars that now dominate auto design.

What’s worse is after mandating the high ass end, there was an increase in the number of children being run over while the car was backing up. The sight line is so far rearward of the rear that you cannot see a small object (or child) if they are close to the vehicle.

This created problem then results in yet another mandated solution - the rear back up camera. Never mind the camera is a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) solution that is easily obscured by dirt, water, ice, frost, and fog. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[emerygt350]

It’s all driven by Rear Impact standards which have been raising the (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif) end in order to comply with the reg’s. This has been going on for decades.

What’s worse is after mandating the high ass end, there was an increase in the number of children being run over while the car was backing up. The sight line is so far rearward of the rear that you cannot see a small object (or child) if they are close to the vehicle.

This created problem then results in yet another mandated solution - the rear back up camera. Never mind the camera is a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) solution that is easily obscured by dirt, water, ice, frost, and fog. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Sigh. Cars as diapers. That is where we are headed.

[Superhawk996]

It’s all driven by Rear Impact standards which have been raising the (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif) end in order to comply with the reg’s. This has been going on for decades.

What’s worse is after mandating the high ass end, there was an increase in the number of children being run over while the car was backing up. The sight line is so far rearward of the rear that you cannot see a small object (or child) if they are close to the vehicle.

This created problem then results in yet another mandated solution - the rear back up camera. Never mind the camera is a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) solution that is easily obscured by dirt, water, ice, frost, and fog. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Sigh. Cars as diapers. That is where we are headed.

All part of why I left the industry.

Just wait - worse things are coming!

[emerygt350]

If anything it might lead to more road tracks where people that actually want to drive their cars could be free of the people that simply want to move from a to b. Only if we had functional trains and walkable communities. Perhaps those of us that want to drive the Twisties wouldn't have to worry.

[wonkipop]

It’s all driven by Rear Impact standards which have been raising the (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif) end in order to comply with the reg’s. This has been going on for decades.

What’s worse is after mandating the high ass end, there was an increase in the number of children being run over while the car was backing up. The sight line is so far rearward of the rear that you cannot see a small object (or child) if they are close to the vehicle.

This created problem then results in yet another mandated solution - the rear back up camera. Never mind the camera is a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) solution that is easily obscured by dirt, water, ice, frost, and fog. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Sigh. Cars as diapers. That is where we are headed.

we are already there emery. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

@Superhawk996 - another aspect of the spiral you expertly describe is that if a modern car hits you in your ancient vehicle, you in the ancient vehicle are cactus due to the height of modern vehicle. thinking T bone accidents in particular.

a curious statistic is the large rise in roll overs as main accident type on rural roads.
don't know if this is occurring in the USA. but it is here - documented, not anecdotal.

more than a little to do with higher c of g combined with driver aids that insulate from a sense of the cars dynamic state. i've been behind many a driver of modern SUV vehicles (the now almost singular type of car sold here) and watched them ahead enter corners. no one seems to understand how to corner anymore? brake lights flashing on at the apex or even after - as if realising too late they are cornering too fast for the lump of electronically assisted lard they are in. in times past it was well understood that the average vehicle was a lump of lard.

[Superhawk996]

brake lights flashing on at the apex or even after - as if realising too late they are cornering too fast for the lump of electronically assisted lard they are in.

Pretty good chance that if brakes are flashing at or post apex, that is the electronic stability control (ESC) activating keeping the vehicle from rolling over.

ESC automatically applies the brake lights when braking is occurring to warn other drivers.

We don’t have nearly as many single car rollovers as we used to back in 90s and early 00’s. Largely due to the Ford Firestone fiasco ESC was mandated as standard equipment in 2012. Began to become standard first on SUVs around 2007ish before the mandate was in full effect.

Since then a whole lot less single car rollovers but somehow . . . They still find ways. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[wonkipop]

brake lights flashing on at the apex or even after - as if realising too late they are cornering too fast for the lump of electronically assisted lard they are in.

Pretty good chance that if brakes are flashing at or post apex, that is the electronic stability control (ESC) activating keeping the vehicle from rolling over.

ESC automatically applies the brake lights when braking is occurring to warn other drivers.

We don’t have nearly as many single car rollovers as we used to back in 90s and early 00’s. Largely due to the Ford Firestone fiasco ESC was mandated as standard equipment in 2012. Began to become standard first on SUVs around 2007ish before the mandate was in full effect.

Since then a whole lot less single car rollovers but somehow . . . They still find ways. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

you haven't seen our roads or the state they are in.
undulating tarmac, decaying shoulders are designed to defeat the driver defeat devices. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Superhawk996]

- another aspect of the spiral you expertly describe is that if a modern car hits you in your ancient vehicle, you in the ancient vehicle are cactus due to the height of modern vehicle. thinking T bone accidents in particular.

Yeah curious how that works

The mantra in favor of all this BS is always “if it just saves one life”. Yet . . . There is zero concern for what all this escalation in vehicle heights and weights does to those in older or smaller cars.

For years I’ve joking said that if we are going to have this escalating war of whoever drives the bigger vehicle having the right to just maim and kill others with their large behemoth SUV’s and trucks then I’m going to just drive a dump truck as my daily driver.

Originally I was kidding.

I just looked at a military surplus deuce and a half last week! $15k. Mighty appealing and I could use it for snow plowing in the winter. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[emerygt350]

I had to do some hard breaking in the 914 the other day, and due to the washboard it actually locked up the front left. I was proud of the old girl but the drivers around me freaked out.

[Superhawk996]

I had to do some hard breaking in the 914 the other day, and due to the washboard it actually locked up the front left. I was proud of the old girl but the drivers around me freaked out.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I have a Jeep Wrangler that is prone to death wobble when the front end gets too loose. When those front wheels would start shaking - you could watch the traffic scatter. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

[wonkipop]

- another aspect of the spiral you expertly describe is that if a modern car hits you in your ancient vehicle, you in the ancient vehicle are cactus due to the height of modern vehicle. thinking T bone accidents in particular.

Yeah curious how that works

The mantra in favor of all this BS is always “if it just saves one life”. Yet . . . There is zero concern for what all this escalation in vehicle heights and weights does to those in older or smaller cars.

For years I’ve joking said that if we are going to have this escalating war of whoever drives the bigger vehicle having the right to just maim and kill others with their large behemoth SUV’s and trucks then I’m going to just drive a dump truck as my daily driver.

Originally I was kidding.

I just looked at a military surplus deuce and a half last week! $15k. Mighty appealing and I could use it for snow plowing in the winter. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

yep.

some of my friends think i am joking when i say i get the 14 out before 7.00 am at the latest and am back inside by 9.00am if i can help it for squirts around here. suburbia.
its to beat the soccer mums on family taxi runs in full i phone distraction mode telling the kids to be quiet in the back while sucking down their in-car-coffee. too many close calls in the last 5 years with volvo/audi/vw/bmw grille ornaments coming at me at tree top level. never used to feel like this but lately its starting to unnerve me a bit.

feel ok out on the open road. its just around town.

[wonkipop]

@emerygt350 .

that mustang looks great. the more time goes on the more i think ford was going somewhere from the late 70s until they too succumbed to the bubble/blob look in the 90s. aussie falcons have the same sharp edged flat surface styling during that period.

as did many cars.

i think in part the high arses of today are generated by the high top side doors, narrow greenhouse. the designers are caught trying to resolve where those high lines resolve themselves at the back of the car. it all ends up - up ended. basically they design the back seats to encapsulate children in an airbag filled bubble.

the maddest design feature i note on current cars is the crazy back side windows in hatchback rear ends that is past the back doors. usually looks from outside like its a decent sized window. but from inside its not much bigger than half a tissue. why do they bother?

20 years from now there will be no windows on the sides. just cameras and screens.
no body looks out windows anymore anyway. too busy with multiple screens inside.
and we will be banned from driving anyway.

[Dave_Darling]

I think aerodynamics may also play a pretty big role. Companies are under constant pressure to get better fuel economy. Making aero efficiency gains helps that, and is often easier than making engine efficiency improvements at this point. Bigger car butts usually mean less wake, meaning lower drag.

--DD

[Jamie]

When talking about big asses on cars, have you looked at the back of a new Corvette lately? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

[wonkipop]

I think aerodynamics may also play a pretty big role. Companies are under constant pressure to get better fuel economy. Making aero efficiency gains helps that, and is often easier than making engine efficiency improvements at this point. Bigger car butts usually mean less wake, meaning lower drag.

--DD

yes - that is playing a part. but its pretty small biscuits these days.

the big gains in aerodynamic efficiency came with the fitment of underbody cover trays that have smoothed out the underside. along with management of airflow into engine bays. fiddling about with the upper surfaces had already been achieved by even the late 80s and its been very small gains there. the kamm tail with long sloping fastback is an efficient aero shape but its one of several alternatives that produce equal results in drag terms so its not the only way.

case in point. large USA pick up trucks, little more than bricks on wheels have cd factors equal to the NSU RO80 of the late 60s, once considered an extremely efficient areo car. the trucks have smooth undertrays if you look at them closely, the NSU didn't.

to top it off areo is not significant really until you hit about 55 mph. it could be anything. above that speed it starts to matter. and drag is not the only consideration once you move into very high cruising speeds. say 85-100mph range and beyond.
then you want some level of downforce. and the drag that goes with it.