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> Washer hose spare tire fitting
bbrock
post Feb 8 2021, 07:40 PM
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I know this is a futile quest since most of you think it is only civilized to convert the pneumatic windshield washer to an electric pump. But c'mon, that has to be the most ridiculously quirky quirk of a car dripping with quirkiness. Anything that stupid has to be worth keeping... right?

But I have a problem. The seal inside the fitting that screws onto the spare tire was shot and leaking all the air out of the tire. That wasn't going to work so I dug it out and and replaced it with a stack of neoprene washers that looked to be the right size and sealed to each other with a smear of RTV. It worked... almost. It seals tight unless you bend the hose to the side at all and then it leaks. Of course, mounting the tire in the frunk with the hose on bends it to the side. So what to do? Anyone have suggestions on how to seal this thing, or where a replacement might be found? New hoses with fittings are NLA and the ransom demanded by folks with used ones seems steep considering they might very well leak also. Thoughts? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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Jamie
post Feb 8 2021, 08:53 PM
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QUOTE(bbrock @ Feb 8 2021, 05:40 PM) *

I know this is a futile quest since most of you think it is only civilized to convert the pneumatic windshield washer to an electric pump. But c'mon, that has to be the most ridiculously quirky quirk of a car dripping with quirkiness. Anything that stupid has to be worth keeping... right?

But I have a problem. The seal inside the fitting that screws onto the spare tire was shot and leaking all the air out of the tire. That wasn't going to work so I dug it out and and replaced it with a stack of neoprene washers that looked to be the right size and sealed to each other with a smear of RTV. It worked... almost. It seals tight unless you bend the hose to the side at all and then it leaks. Of course, mounting the tire in the frunk with the hose on bends it to the side. So what to do? Anyone have suggestions on how to seal this thing, or where a replacement might be found? New hoses with fittings are NLA and the ransom demanded by folks with used ones seems steep considering they might very well leak also. Thoughts? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I toyed with the electric pump idea, even bought the OEM pump, then decided against having another way for water to eat away at the car. The reservoir was empty when I bought the car from Dad in 2002, and have survived quite well with a small squirt bottle of glass cleaner and a rag in the door pocket. Not everything on a teener is required to work like new, even on a garage queen! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)
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Jett
post Feb 8 2021, 09:27 PM
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QUOTE(bbrock @ Feb 8 2021, 05:40 PM) *

I know this is a futile quest since most of you think it is only civilized to convert the pneumatic windshield washer to an electric pump. But c'mon, that has to be the most ridiculously quirky quirk of a car dripping with quirkiness. Anything that stupid has to be worth keeping... right?

But I have a problem. The seal inside the fitting that screws onto the spare tire was shot and leaking all the air out of the tire. That wasn't going to work so I dug it out and and replaced it with a stack of neoprene washers that looked to be the right size and sealed to each other with a smear of RTV. It worked... almost. It seals tight unless you bend the hose to the side at all and then it leaks. Of course, mounting the tire in the frunk with the hose on bends it to the side. So what to do? Anyone have suggestions on how to seal this thing, or where a replacement might be found? New hoses with fittings are NLA and the ransom demanded by folks with used ones seems steep considering they might very well leak also. Thoughts? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I like to make this work as well, super unique. 914Rubber sell the replacement hose kit, as they all eventually decay and leak, but the tire valve piece will need to come from a member. Also note that the switch on the column can also leak, so be careful when firsts pressurizing the system.
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Montreal914
post Feb 8 2021, 10:15 PM
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Anything that could be borrowed from the VW Beetle? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
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bbrock
post Feb 8 2021, 10:42 PM
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I do have the 914Rubber hose kit installed and everything seems to be working well except the slow leak at the tire fitting.

This system does share parts with other VWs but so far the closest I've come is used hoses that include the fitting for $40 or more. That's too steep of a price for a used part that might not be any better than what I have. If I could find NOS at that price I might for it.
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bbrock
post Feb 8 2021, 10:51 PM
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Hmm. I wonder if that hose would stretch over a 1/4" barb. Not exactly stock but... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com-20845-1612846290.1.jpg)
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wonkipop
post Feb 8 2021, 11:03 PM
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QUOTE(bbrock @ Feb 8 2021, 07:40 PM) *

I know this is a futile quest since most of you think it is only civilized to convert the pneumatic windshield washer to an electric pump. But c'mon, that has to be the most ridiculously quirky quirk of a car dripping with quirkiness. Anything that stupid has to be worth keeping... right?

But I have a problem. The seal inside the fitting that screws onto the spare tire was shot and leaking all the air out of the tire. That wasn't going to work so I dug it out and and replaced it with a stack of neoprene washers that looked to be the right size and sealed to each other with a smear of RTV. It worked... almost. It seals tight unless you bend the hose to the side at all and then it leaks. Of course, mounting the tire in the frunk with the hose on bends it to the side. So what to do? Anyone have suggestions on how to seal this thing, or where a replacement might be found? New hoses with fittings are NLA and the ransom demanded by folks with used ones seems steep considering they might very well leak also. Thoughts? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)


i'm with you on that. i got mine going again.
but i think like you my fitting at the spare tyre is leaking somehow.
as it drained the air in the tyre.
i've got to look into it when i finish rebuilding the fuel pumps.

its certainly not operating right as it should not flatten the tyre.
its supposed to stop at 28lbs.
i've since disconnected it and repumped the tyre and it has stayed inflated.
so i know its not the tyre itself that is the problem.

i got the rest of it working. had to replace all the one way valves in the lines to the washers. not hard to get those, they are sold by porsche and still available.
i purchased a new operating valve to rebuild the part in the steering column operated off the stalk. the part that arrived was junk, the little plastic pin that pushes down into the valve just went sideways on the first go. so returned to my original part and managed to make it go again by soaking it in warm water and blowing it through with air. it was basically jammed up with calcium deposits. i also replace all the hoses. so i'm not giving up.
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wonkipop
post Feb 9 2021, 09:22 AM
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i have found this - i might chase up myself.

from M & T manufacturing. VW restoration parts.
its a new part they make themselves that is close to the original part.
but is the whole thing cap, hose and tyre fitting.


https://www.mtmfg.com/part/view/window-wash...rt=311-955-979B
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DRPHIL914
post Feb 9 2021, 10:06 AM
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QUOTE(wonkipop @ Feb 9 2021, 10:22 AM) *

i have found this - i might chase up myself.

from M & T manufacturing. VW restoration parts.
its a new part they make themselves that is close to the original part.
but is the whole thing cap, hose and tyre fitting.


https://www.mtmfg.com/part/view/window-wash...rt=311-955-979B


interesting find! well i have the electric pump oem 911 from 914sixer, and put in the converted switch in the column , from Carmagic, and now the lever when pulled will push the switch and trigger the pump, that is not installed yet, but hope to soon, no more water inthe lap out of the steering column for me!
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wonkipop
post Feb 9 2021, 10:39 AM
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QUOTE(DRPHIL914 @ Feb 9 2021, 10:06 AM) *

QUOTE(wonkipop @ Feb 9 2021, 10:22 AM) *

i have found this - i might chase up myself.

from M & T manufacturing. VW restoration parts.
its a new part they make themselves that is close to the original part.
but is the whole thing cap, hose and tyre fitting.


https://www.mtmfg.com/part/view/window-wash...rt=311-955-979B


interesting find! well i have the electric pump oem 911 from 914sixer, and put in the converted switch in the column , from Carmagic, and now the lever when pulled will push the switch and trigger the pump, that is not installed yet, but hope to soon, no more water inthe lap out of the steering column for me!


i zip tied the hoses on to the nozzles in the steering column valve.
a solution that worked on my old type 3 in the 80s.
also you got to use the decent quality hose.
the hose lasts anything from 10 to 20 years depending on where it is.

a solution for bbrock to consider is how i used to work it on my type 3 and how i could work it on the 914 which is not to connect the hose permanently to the spare. i had similar problems from time to time on the old type 3 where a valve would play up and drain the spare. so i got into a routine with the car of filling the bottle, pressurizing off the spare and the disconnecting and then setting the spare to correct pressure. once a month.
since you have to depressurize to top up the bottle it was just part of the routine of making sure there was liquid in it.

i can certainly pressurize my system off the spare, but for some reason it has drained the spare so the leak must be between the bottle and the spare much as bbrock is talking about. the rest of the system including the bottle has stayed pressurized. its a slow leak in that hose to the tyre and probably either the connection to the tyre valve or the pressure limited spring valve and its connections in the hose. the springvalve is at the join between the bottle hose and the tyre hose. there are at least three places it can misbehave in that run of hose.

i have never really understood how the spring valve actually works, never having taken one apart. its the thing that is supposed to stop drawing pressure once the tyre falls to 28 lbs. except they pretty much started playing up after only a few years, even in new vws. deadly when you go to reach for that spare tyre and its dead flat.

i've got a feeling the M&T part when you look at it closely is not quite the full part.
its the bottle cap with the little white press tab in it that opens up the line once you tighten the cap on and its a straight connection to the tyre (which is the bit bbrock wants). there is no in line pressure limiting valve. thats what is meant by the disclaimer "not to original spec" when you read their fine print and study the image? to use it - would require the routine i describe above of pressurizing and then unscrewing from the tyre. you can always plumb in the spring valve from an original set up - assuming its not haywire as well.
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Mikey914
post Feb 9 2021, 10:51 AM
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QUOTE(bbrock @ Feb 8 2021, 08:51 PM) *

Hmm. I wonder if that hose would stretch over a 1/4" barb. Not exactly stock but... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com-20845-1612846290.1.jpg)

It may. WE made our hose out of a moldable rubber that if you put it in hot water will soften it up. You can push over the barb when hot and it will seal nicely.
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bbrock
post Feb 9 2021, 04:21 PM
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QUOTE(wonkipop @ Feb 9 2021, 09:39 AM) *

QUOTE(DRPHIL914 @ Feb 9 2021, 10:06 AM) *

QUOTE(wonkipop @ Feb 9 2021, 10:22 AM) *

i have found this - i might chase up myself.

from M & T manufacturing. VW restoration parts.
its a new part they make themselves that is close to the original part.
but is the whole thing cap, hose and tyre fitting.


https://www.mtmfg.com/part/view/window-wash...rt=311-955-979B


interesting find! well i have the electric pump oem 911 from 914sixer, and put in the converted switch in the column , from Carmagic, and now the lever when pulled will push the switch and trigger the pump, that is not installed yet, but hope to soon, no more water inthe lap out of the steering column for me!


i zip tied the hoses on to the nozzles in the steering column valve.
a solution that worked on my old type 3 in the 80s.
also you got to use the decent quality hose.
the hose lasts anything from 10 to 20 years depending on where it is.

a solution for bbrock to consider is how i used to work it on my type 3 and how i could work it on the 914 which is not to connect the hose permanently to the spare. i had similar problems from time to time on the old type 3 where a valve would play up and drain the spare. so i got into a routine with the car of filling the bottle, pressurizing off the spare and the disconnecting and then setting the spare to correct pressure. once a month.
since you have to depressurize to top up the bottle it was just part of the routine of making sure there was liquid in it.

i can certainly pressurize my system off the spare, but for some reason it has drained the spare so the leak must be between the bottle and the spare much as bbrock is talking about. the rest of the system including the bottle has stayed pressurized. its a slow leak in that hose to the tyre and probably either the connection to the tyre valve or the pressure limited spring valve and its connections in the hose. the springvalve is at the join between the bottle hose and the tyre hose. there are at least three places it can misbehave in that run of hose.

i have never really understood how the spring valve actually works, never having taken one apart. its the thing that is supposed to stop drawing pressure once the tyre falls to 28 lbs. except they pretty much started playing up after only a few years, even in new vws. deadly when you go to reach for that spare tyre and its dead flat.

i've got a feeling the M&T part when you look at it closely is not quite the full part.
its the bottle cap with the little white press tab in it that opens up the line once you tighten the cap on and its a straight connection to the tyre (which is the bit bbrock wants). there is no in line pressure limiting valve. thats what is meant by the disclaimer "not to original spec" when you read their fine print and study the image? to use it - would require the routine i describe above of pressurizing and then unscrewing from the tyre. you can always plumb in the spring valve from an original set up - assuming its not haywire as well.


Nice find on that M&T part and good summary of the system. One thing I think is off though. I'm pretty sure the pressure regulator that prevents the tire (a.k.a. tyre (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) from going flat is in the bottle cap. The spring fitting you are referring to is just a standard Schrader valve That lets you refill the spare tire without having to did it out from under the frunk floor board. Mine was leaking so I took it apart and can confirm it just has a standard Schrader valve core inside. I picked up a replacement at my FLAPS and no more leak.

For $6 I'm going to try that Schrader hose barb first (forgot to include the link so here it is: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005DVE6Y...HXNCI&psc=1 I think Mark is right that his hose material will stretch over the barb. That stuff seems very versatile. If that doesn't work, I'll probably order the M&T part. You're right it isn't quite the complete 914 kit (being for a beetle), but it does have the fitting I need. I might try contacting them to see if they can sell just that fitting.

Thanks for all the input here. It's nice to know there are some fellow fans of this PITA system. As for the leaking on the lap. I think it is a feature. When you are as ugly as me, your best option for talking my way out of a ticket is to step out of the car looking like I just peed my pants. "Why yes officer, I was in a hurry." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)
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wonkipop
post Feb 9 2021, 05:56 PM
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@ bbrock.

pardon the limey spelling rather than mericanlish. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

correct the bottle cap stops it going flat, theoretically anyway.
though they can clag up to. but i still don't know exactly how that works mechanically.
i wouldn't mind knowing.

i finally got my head around the two part hose back to the spare tyre.
typical VW parts rationalisation/irrationality? not sure.

the original system to power the bottle off the spare tyre was designed for the standard beetle with a short hose to an upright spare.

its like that became a standard part they kept on incorporating into all their systems.

the super beetle, the type 3, the type 4 and the 914 came along with spare wheels in different locations/distances from the bottle.

they made a new part which was a length of hose connecting the tyre to the end of the standard beetle bottle cap/hose/screw-in fitting (formerly to tyre).

the new hose had a schrader valve (tyre tube valve) in one end of it and the screw fitting in the other.

there is something going on there because that hose is a smaller diameter than all the other hoses in the system after the second valve and after the bottle. why i don't know but the one from the tyre to the second schrader valve is smaller. maybe its to protect it in the luggage compartment to make it less vulnerable to damage. its certainly fed up to the bottle in the 914 via a route that means if it ever needs replacement the fuel tank has to come out. its the one hose i left alone in my system having inspected it. it was in excellent condition still. all the other softer hoses in the rest of the system were cracking and had begun to perish at the ends where they connected to other valves etc.

so the whole system in a 914 (and super beetle, type 3 and type 4) has two schrader valves. one at the tyre and one in line in the hose to the bottle. i was very confused by this second valve thinking it did something - its either its just a crazy german idea of an adapter joiner or the different diameters of the lines do something i can't quite understand yet.

the answer is buy one of those extensions i have seen and i know exist you can get for cars/trucks with difficult to access spare tyres. its a hose that comes off the tyre valve and it has another identical tyre valve in the other end of it you can hook up a tyre pressure gun to. take the screw in fitting off that and put on 914 hose.

i am going to do that. i had a real close look at mine this morning. its doing the same thing as yours. its leaking there i can tell.

the exact same screw in fitting up near the bottle is not jiggly and loose like the one is down at the tyre. and as i say, the tyre went flat but the bottle stayed pressurised.

i think a tyre extension line is cheaper to buy than one of these VW bottle cap kits.

i haven't had the pleasure of being urinated on by the 914, but i did have it happen to me in my old type 3 when i was younger and it was on the way to work. i was stuck in traffic too so i had to just let it empty its bladder on to me. it takes a long time for a vw to have a piss.

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bbrock
post Feb 9 2021, 06:58 PM
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QUOTE(wonkipop @ Feb 9 2021, 04:56 PM) *


there is something going on there because that hose is a smaller diameter than all the other hoses in the system after the second valve and after the bottle. why i don't know but the one from the tyre to the second schrader valve is smaller. maybe its to protect it in the luggage compartment to make it less vulnerable to damage.


Was not aware of the different size hoses. I should have looked when I pulled my old deteriorated ones. Interesting.

QUOTE

its certainly fed up to the bottle in the 914 via a route that means if it ever needs replacement the fuel tank has to come out.


Not necessarily. I don't know if it was the clever Germans thinking ahead or just luck, but the replacement hose will have that male schrader on the bottle end and a female fitting on the tyre (ooh, merican spell check doesn't like that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) ) end. So as long as the old hose isn't completely broken, you just screw the male schrader of the new hose into the female fitting on the old hose. Pop the grommet in on the bulkhead and pull the old hose up through the top until the new hose is in place. Pop in the new grommet and hook it up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

QUOTE
so the whole system in a 914 (and super beetle, type 3 and type 4) has two schrader valves. one at the tyre and one in line in the hose to the bottle. i was very confused by this second valve thinking it did something - its either its just a crazy german idea of an adapter joiner or the different diameters of the lines do something i can't quite understand yet.


I think it is just a convenient place to add air to your tyre. Say you are on a long trip loaded with luggage and you've been wiping mud spatter off the windshield for the last 200 miles (do you know what a mile is? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) ). You stop for gas and know your tyre is probably getting low. No need to schlep all the luggage out and pull the board to access the tyre. Just unscrew that upper schrader and start pumping air. I've done it many times and it works! Cheeky Germans, they are. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

QUOTE
the answer is buy one of those extensions i have seen and i know exist you can get for cars/trucks with difficult to access spare tyres. its a hose that comes off the tyre valve and it has another identical tyre valve in the other end of it you can hook up a tyre pressure gun to. take the screw in fitting off that and put on 914 hose.


But that is what the hose on the tyre already does. It's a little awkward to hold the little hose while pressing the pressure nozzle on, but not too bad.

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wonkipop
post Feb 9 2021, 07:05 PM
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thats a hot tip for how to get the hose replacement done under tank.
would have taken me at least two days of staring at it scratching my head to think of that one.

i had not thought of that one. filling the spare tyre from above. am a dumb aussie.
i am the sort of moron who would take all the luggage out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)
cause of course you never had to take the luggage out to get the spare wheel out of a type 3 - so i am an unthinking creature of habit always going for the spare wheel end of the hose ---- when thanks to you after 30 odd years of ownership i now realise after all this time i can air up the spare from next to the gas cap.

i haven't ever even tried to unscrew it having only just worked out what it was.
the whole time thinking it was some kind of smart valve in there.
which it was. smart germans designing for smart americans.

---
i meant to just disassemble the spare extension hoses you can get to get the screw in fitting off it. but its the same as ideas above about the type of fitting. whatever its bound to be a $5.00 part rather than a $30.00 part from VW mobs. a fully steel fitting is going to be better than the little plastic VW one.

----
i used to know what miles were. we used them when i was a child. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
you blokes are the last country on earth still doing the imperial thing - apart from the imperialists.
whats with that, i thought you kicked the limeys out 200 years ago.

its actually a bit of a hassle in the 914 as i am driving on mph in a kmh country -
and the state govt. here has gone zero tolerance on urban speeding using cameras,
so no cop discretion. and in typical aus bureaucratic fashion there are now umpteen different urban speed limits. 30k. 40 k 50 k 60 k 70 k 80k. its all designed to fill the revenue coffers under the guise of public safety. was only a decade ago it was standard 60k with 80k on some divided major urban roads. 100-110 on the open road.
and on the "un"-opened roads - whatever you thought. but cameras everywhere now.
hidden behind bushes etc.

why a 1.8 L 914 finally makes sense.
and my other cars rarely get to get opened up.
better to find a twisty road and do the fast corner thing.
though i have heard cops pulling up folks for taking corners at "reckless" speed if there happens to be a sign before the corner posting a recommended max speed.
its getting hard to live as a free man.
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bbrock
post Feb 9 2021, 07:32 PM
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QUOTE(wonkipop @ Feb 9 2021, 06:05 PM) *

---- when thanks to you after 30 odd years of ownership i now realise after all this time i can air up the spare from next to the gas cap.


Okay, now I have to confess. I bought my first 914 in 1982 and have had at least one ever since. Guess when I figured out that fitting could be used to fill the tire... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)


Less than a week ago. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tooth.gif)




QUOTE
i used to know what miles were. we used them when i was a child. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
you blokes are the last country on earth still doing the imperial thing - apart from the imperialists.
whats with that, i thought you kicked the limeys out 200 years ago.


Don't get me started. I'm a scientist so know the metric system well. It pisses me off every time I have to use this shitty back-assward system, which, of course, leaves me pissed off quite a lot. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
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windforfun
post Feb 9 2021, 07:42 PM
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Move to California & the issue becomes rather mute. Mine leaks, but I never need to use it.

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bbrock
post Feb 9 2021, 07:56 PM
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QUOTE(windforfun @ Feb 9 2021, 06:42 PM) *

Move to California & the issue becomes rather mute. Mine leaks, but I never need to use it.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Yes, but then I'd be stuck living in California (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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914sgofast2
post Feb 9 2021, 09:12 PM
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QUOTE(bbrock @ Feb 9 2021, 05:56 PM) *

QUOTE(windforfun @ Feb 9 2021, 06:42 PM) *

Move to California & the issue becomes rather mute. Mine leaks, but I never need to use it.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Yes, but then I'd be stuck living in California (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Please stay out of California. We have enough loonies already.
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preach
post Feb 9 2021, 09:20 PM
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Brent I am pretty sure I have a '72 one and a '74 one if you want me to look in my pile.
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