@StarBear & @wonkipop want to hear from members who own 1974 1.8s.
to assist with a topic in originality section of the website.

Cars need to be reasonably original with L jet fuel injection system intact.

If you have the time and can help us with some information it would be great.

information.

1. Vin Date - month and year (no need to post vin numbers if you don't want to). thats the date on the driver door sticker.

2. Karmann plate #. or if you have already done the maths, the day and week of the year the car began production.

3. Image of engine bay emission sticker (lhs above the air cleaner - white with red letters). sticker should say whether it is an EC-A or an EC-B engine and whether it is california + EPA or only EPA.

4. image of engine tune up sticker.
this is the small white sticker that is on LHS engine tin just below fan shroud.
most of them are gone by now, but some engines still have them.

5. image of the throttle body. image of the distributor.
we are looking at the vacuum hose set up between the distributor and the throttle body.

-----

Especially if your 1.8L was built in late 73 or the earlier part of 74 - it seems like the setups varied quite a bit from month-to-month during this period for MY 74. We're trying to make sense of the varied information we're seeing; this "should" help us diagnose weird startup/running/decel conditions being experienced.

Would be helpful to add some samples of these labels to this thread.

emission sticker.

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tune up sticker

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throttle body.
(see if green retard hose and grey advance hose are connected and where).

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distributor
(see if green retard hose and grey advance are connected).

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You probably know this already: Only US 1.8l 914´s had the L-Jetronic. European 1.8l´s where equipped with Solex 40PDSIT carburators, the only 914´s without a fuel injection. So the 1.8´s are really special in some way.

yep

but the ANO engines are not of interest. interesting as they are.

just the info in this thread about the L jets.

Jeff, good idea for posting an example. It gave me good intel on where to focus my efforts on gently removing the undercoating to reveal the sticker.

Gents, here’s my contribution:

@Van B

thanks mate. gold.

(you might have worked it out already - the karmann # = started build on monday 10th dec and was the fifth car for the day - 12 days after StarBears.)

I have not worked that out. Would you mind breaking that down for me?!
Useless info, but still very cool lol!

5019505

50 = 50th week of calendar year (1973)
1 = day of week. = monday.
9 = karmann factory at osnabruck (spelling?)
5 = how they write zero (germans? don't ask), if its a 6 means they went over 100 for the day.
05 = fifth car of the day.

if i have that wrong @SirAndy will put it right.

nice and early in the day when they started to weld the body together.
before they went off to the pub at lunchtime. mine was done in the danger period,
can't work out if it was before lunch or right after lunch.

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@RRietman

thanks mate.


EDIT.

just to fill in a bit on why we are after this.

yours stacks up against our EC-B stickered cars.
has a vacuum retard and advance function on dist fully hooked up to throttle body.
that set up accords with the late Cap'n Krusty take on all L jets.

however - there is very definitely an EC-A stickered car. one at least.
and that likely has a set up @ClayPerrine says was the L jet set up.
only the vacuum retard function is hooked up.
dr. 914 says that set up kicked in start of jan 74.

but there is defintely EC-Bs being produced right through jan 74 at minimum.
i have one. its end of jan 74.

it will be real gold when someone throws up a EC-A stickered car with an intact setup.

also there is an EC-B sticker that says its only EPA approved. but we don't know the setup.

a few members out there with those setups might start to shine light on the mysteries of the 1.8.

2 weeks prior to mine. I’m sure we’ll gather an EC-A car soon.

and in the window for the fume can in the frunk?

@RRietman

- sorry to bug you. where is the charcoal cannister in your car?

I have one of these but it is just a tub, nothing on it at all. Going to Frankenteener it with my 72'. Sorry I can't help.

Hey dude, I did this chop a few years back for a competition at Freakingnews.com. I was to do an Australian road sign. Did I nail it?

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an EC-A?

even VIN and Karmann number would be handy if you have it?
puts a date on the car.

if the sticker is there, does it say California and EPA approved or just EPA approved.

thanks for the reply.

close

you left off venomous politicians.

I registered the VIN here under the name So.Cal.914 The rest was stripped off the tub by the body shop I bought the tub from. The tub is coming from my brothers where it sits in a storage container, this winter. So I can't go out and look to make it easier.

You forgot the drop bears.

Hahaha, I popped this pic into google image search yesterday and it is being used all over the place ( kinda cool ) and while reading at these sites I read about carnivorous Kuala's. Had I known, hahaha

I'm gonna start calling you Shivers the thread pirate!

Aaarrrg

pic of can in frunk
thanks
RandyClick to view attachment

@Shivers
thanks for the can info, looked up the car on member vin.
its not in that critical zone between @Starbear car and a green car i found on internet.
but randy's car is with its vin and k number. i'm just going to work out what that means for a date close to where this can thing happens.

as an aside.

so far all the cars we know about for EC-B are grouped from nov 73 to end of jan 74.

thanks for can photo @RRietman

Sorry I couldn't help.

@wonkipop

no worries mate. come down to aus one day and check out the wildlife.

Here is the data from my 1974 1.8L L-jet. Stock FI with the exception of Pertronix ignition drop in module. Built 15th week of 1974, Wednesday April 10th, 1974, Karmann factory Osnabrück, 552nd or 52nd car. My car is an EC-A engine code. Now at some point in this car's life, someone decided to cap off the throttle body connection for the ignition retard side and "T" into a closer manifold vacuum source which is shared by the fuel pressure regulator etc. I have no idea why, unless it was easier to connect there instead of running it under the intake manifold back to the throttle body port.

More photos

Oh the guys are gonna be so happy when they see this!

STOKED



mr. b is going to be happy too.

@L-Jet914 - this is your dad's car right. been in the family.
its more than gold.

and its a 606 engine stencil.
mr. b can get the headache figuring that out.

we got 604, 605, now a 606 and he has a A with a 607 on his website.

My father bought the car new in 1974 from a now defunct dealership called Ely Porsche Audi in Hayward, California, USA. It's been a California car it's entire life. The 914 is still in his name, but I drive, try to maintain and show the vehicle now.

re your observations on retard port.
maybe that is what an A is? rather than somebody having done something to it?
it might have been like that since new?

they do something with the A version which is different to the B and that is what we are trying to figure out.

also lurking out there somewhere will be a EC-B that is not california certified.
mr. b has a sticker for one but no further information. it definitely existed too.

Based on my trials, I would wager that the ECU is different, or at least the program. My car simply would not start in that configuration.

My contribution. Imported into Aus in 1990. Converted to RHD but otherwise seem pretty original. It had a wack up the left rear quarter and another quarter grafted on and not very well. It didn't have a charcoal canister in the front and so I guess that might have ben dropped off as too hard to replace the line/s to the rear.

VIN 4742908959
Engine # EC005018
Karmann chassis # 47 1 9 642

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@nihil44

i was waiting for you to come through.
you ripper.
an A with some vital detail? its a mystery.
might need to ask more about that vac set up.



what this is proving is they are mixing the A in with the B.
as to why? but they are not doing them one after the other.
and they are both california and EPA certified.

parts book says ECU is not changed.
but it says there are two different throttle bodies.
thats it. thats the only difference in the parts book.

but its not that easy.
because it seems lurking out there was an non california version.
go figure. germans.

i dunno yet? don't think anyone does.

anyone with a B has the Cap'n Krusty version.
but others swear that there are different ones when it comes to this vac hose hook up.

???????????

I don't why the vacuum T was installed in between with the fuel pressure regulator and decel valve was done to connect the retard side of the vacuum port of my distributor. The port on my throttle body is capped off as pictured. I do know the engine had some major work done to it in the 80s cylinder heads etc. So it now has the configuration of two vacuum t's connected to the manifold vacuum port off the intake plenum giving vacuum to the retard side of the distributor, fuel pressure regulator and the decel valve, instead of just the decel valve and fuel pressure regulator.

@L-Jet914 don't worry as to what or the why yet.
for now the thread has gone..........
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you are going to have to expand on that theory.
and i know you can!

all ears.

Pandora must have been really busy those months.

@Big Len

@L-Jet914
its possible the retard vac hose set up was modified with the engine rebuild.

the way i see it the one reliable bit of original information is the white engine tune sticker.

that sticker shows only a retard vacuum hose to distributor.
instructs hose to be off for initial idle setting.

there is no hose shown to the right of distributor on diagram to the advance port.
VW has a consistent practice on these stickers across all models to show any hose that is there and to show if it is either disconnected or left connected for the idle setting.

so no hose on the advance distributor would have been the original state of the car.

to note, no hose means no connected hose to anywhere else.
it has to be remembered vw would have fixed a hose on to that advance vacuum port and tucked it under the distributor. the hose in that instance protects the interior of the vacuum port from moisture and dirt. this is how others describe their L Jet set up in old threads here.

from there you get to the throttle body.
it would have had the retard hose connected to the retard port down near the tin on the forward facing part of the throttle body. which it currently does.
the advance port would either not have been present on the throttle body or it would have been capped with a rubber or hard plastic fitting.

for whatever reason along the way, the advance port has been activated.
in a manner similar to a EC-B, but not quite.
its been activated with a manifold source after the throttle plate as well as the source before the throttle plate used on the EC-B. i won't go into that here. it works for you.

basically this one is the @ClayPerrine version. when it is in its original state.
thats what i work out from what i am seeing. retard connection only to TB.

we have not seen a fully intact version of this yet linking the distributor/TB set up to an emissions sticker and a tune sticker but i'm thinking this is it. EC-A = CP version.

its being installed as late as april 74.
the one on @JeffBowlsby website is first week of jan 74.
and @nihil44 has one from november 74.

its great that you have posted the photos you did.
they match the car on @JeffBowlsby 's website.

at least its possible to see that a 604 and 605 are EC-B engines.
and 606 and 607 are EC-A engines.

or maybe our statistical sample isn't big enough yet?

@nihil44

yours is real interesting.

theoretically it should be like @L-Jet914 .
if that is what an EC-A is. by that i mean what i describe above for his car as possibly original set up.

but images seem to be saying its got no retard function.
is that so?
i found a thread on throttle body rebuilds and you had posted an image of your rebuilt TB. it appeared to show no retard port down below the idle screw?

@L-Jet914

i think i have figured out what the modification on yours does and why it might have been done.
its someone's idea of how to cancel retard at standing idle.

the basic idea would be the advance on the dist is being pulled at idle and counteracts the pull in opposite direction from retard.

retard at idle was an emissions thing.
it made combustion cooler for lower NOx emission.

the plumbing in the modification possibly also changes the way the distributor comes off advance as you deaccelerate. someone has done it because they believe it makes it drive a bit sweeter is my guess. it probably does, you are driving it. the only way to know what its doing would be to drive another 914 with the original set up and compare alongside.

stuff gets done to these cars.

esp. these ones with the first real smog engines.

EDIT
actually i might have that the wrong way around, re-reading your original description.
it seems they have gone for a different source of vacuum for the retard than the throttle body?

and maybe took the factory cap off the advance port and put it on the retard port.
and connected up advance when it was never connected. could be as simple as that.
some-one familiar with the EC-B engines looked at this one and decided it was "wrong" so they made an EC-B style set up?

another member here working on the texas twins has supplied what he has still on his shell.

its an EC-A california + EPA certified.
Vin is 13391. its exactly 30 cars after mine.
so late jan. 74

an EC-A being fitted virtually alongside an EC-B.

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So weird. Wonder if tuneup sticker specs are different. Getting more data; eventually we WILL find a correlating factor or spec.
Key question is : How are EC-A and EC-B engine equipment or setups different. “Should” be more than just the mileage/drivability setup issues.
Then, that whole engine tin numbers issue. No consistency to establish a pattern.

the factory manual describes only the EC-B set up.
talks about disconnecting both vacuum hoses for idle set - doing the timing at idle.

no mention of the single hose set up or descriptions of a vacuum hose going nowhere off distributor, or advance hose not being connected.

one thing to keep in mind. these are L Jet numero uno.
they likely were playing around as they went with different kinds of fine tuning of this set up. that double vac distributor had interesting possibilities when you think about it.
it had plenty of capacity in built for mechanical advance in terms of "performance" behaviour. but playing around with how you activated the vacuum advance had big pluses for meeting emissions and doing other stuff. and maybe some big minuses too.

the L jet on the 412s is set up completely differently at the same time. its running EGR in 1974. VW are really experimented with L jet doing lots of different things.
far as i know 412s also ran the EC code engine. but whether it was an EC-A or B or something else i don't know. never seen a 412 emission sticker to know.

So what you're saying is that according to my tune up sticker, the vac advance side of the distributor was not supposed to be hooked up to the rear port facing the trunk of the throttle body (I've checked no vacuum until off idle at the rear port and manifold vacuum at the forward facing port)? I've only driven the car as you see pictured in the engine bay. I never drove the car prior to any engine work etc. I would love to see a EC-A setup L-Jet engine in bone stock configuration to see if I should remove the added vacuum t and route the retard side of the distributor to the manifold vacuum side of the throttle body. This thread is becoming more and more interesting as I've read through this.