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partwerks
The Boxster "S" 6 speed trans, that is used with the LS3 engine. Are all of the transaxles geared differently, or all the same?


Is anyone else running the Boxster "S" 6 speed, with an LS engine?
tygaboy
The Boxster S trans is the G86-20. All of those have the same gearing. I have an LS3 with that trans. Tony @Cracker runs an LS7 with his. No issues with over 500 hp.
Cracker
Lyle,

I replied to your PM...the system is amazing -just not cheap. You will not be disappointed if you choose to move forward. The gearing, like Chris said, is the same. All G86-20 boxes have an open diff. I had a Guard LSD installed in mine which cost over twice what I paid for the box. If it is a street car - no biggie - if it is a serious track car - it is a big deal. Best wishes!

Tony

Click to view attachment

partwerks
QUOTE(Cracker @ Oct 5 2019, 05:21 PM) *

Lyle,

I replied to your PM...the system is amazing -just not cheap. You will not be disappointed if you choose to move forward. The gearing, like Chris said, is the same. All G86-20 boxes have an open diff. I had a Guard LSD installed in mine which cost over twice what I paid for the box. If it is a street car - no biggie - if it is a serious track car - it is a big deal. Best wishes!

Tony

Click to view attachment



Nothing is needed for support on the back end of the trans?

How heavy of springs are you using, and how long are they?

I would just need to change the shifter cables, and not necessarily the main body of the shifter?

ClayPerrine
I have a 2006 Cayman S G86-21 trans in my car. It shifts great, once you get the cables adjusted properly.

I don't like the trans mount in the last picture. That cantilevers the transmission mounting points, so eventually it is going to break. The mounts bend up under hard acceleration, and down under engine braking. That puts metal fatigue into them. If you are using a Boxster shifter, everything should hook up with the cables. Mine are custom so I can keep what looks like a factory shifter.

Here are some pictures of the mount in my car.

IPB Image

IPB Image

You could do something similar, but move the mounting points to make the V8 fit.



partwerks
Any pictures of what trans mount Renegade Hybrids is using??
Joemo5
QUOTE(partwerks @ Oct 5 2019, 11:50 PM) *

Any pictures of what trans mount Renegade Hybrids is using??


I'm pretty sure it's the one that Cracker is using, shown in the pics above.
Cracker
1) If there IS one downside of the Renegade mount it is the weight (50 lbs!!!)...it is waaaay overbuilt. I've attached another pic installed...breaking off and fatique. LMAO lol-2.gif

2) Regarding springs - most street cars will probably want to be in the 300-350 range - the height depends upon your coilovers (probably 8") in the standard teener.

3) You HAVE to change both the cables and the shifter.

4) This isn't an easy swap - if you paying someone to do the work/install - it could get even more pricey. JFYI.

Cracker

Click to view attachment

tygaboy
I'd bet that Tony has the market cornered on stress testing the Renegade mount. Between the LS3 and now the LS7, and the serious pace he runs on track, his mount has seen stresses that exceed what a typical street car will see.
Also, there are any number of LS-powered Renegade-based cars out there and I don't believe there are reported failures. I could be wrong, but I haven't heard of any.

Could other designs be "better"? There's always room to improve and Clay's is very nice. If one is a skilled fabricator, or has access to one, then sure, go for it.

But so far, so good on the Renegade design. I'll report back if I have any problems with mine - which has a 1.5" spacer added to it. So I'm likely the best test case for the "too much cantilever" study.
dakotaewing
Tony and Clay,

What did each of you do to address the shifter linkage that is attached to this transaxle?
Most transaxles when purchased have the linkage missing, such as mine, and to replace with new factory parts is over $500.
Finding those parts used appears difficult, and there appears to be no after market solutions available. If you can provide a solution or resource it would be a big help.
I'm contemplating building a engine transaxle cradle to simplify installation and removal of an LS/G86 20 combo, but need to resolve the linkage issue.
Cracker
I have not seen a used box posted for sale that did NOT include the linkage...that is as long as we talking about the same item. biggrin.gif

Cracker

Click to view attachment
tygaboy
Lyle - If you mean the shifter and associated cables, you can get a stock Boxster S shifter and cables on ebay for under $150. Here's one that's available now.

I splurged and got a Numeric shifter and cable set up. Not cheap, but super neat-o!
partwerks
QUOTE(tygaboy @ Oct 6 2019, 01:11 PM) *

Lyle - If you mean the shifter and associated cables, you can get a stock Boxster S shifter and cables on ebay for under $150. Here's one that's available now.

I splurged and got a Numeric shifter and cable set up. Not cheap, but super neat-o!


What is the numberic shifter?

Other thing I will ask Kennedy, is if the current adapter plate I have will work with the 6 speed? I had it made with the 6 speed bolt pattern also, but if the internals are different, then it may have been a waste of time?

Will an Audi/Passat 6 speed work?
dakotaewing
Tony and Clay,

The parts that I'm referring to are in this diagram, minus the cables -Click to view attachment
Cracker
Here you go Thom...allot less than $500! $120 and free shipping

Cracker

Ebay #281840553866

Click to view attachment
partwerks
QUOTE(tygaboy @ Oct 6 2019, 01:11 PM) *

Lyle - If you mean the shifter and associated cables, you can get a stock Boxster S shifter and cables on ebay for under $150. Here's one that's available now.

I splurged and got a Numeric shifter and cable set up. Not cheap, but super neat-o!


I'm guessing the main body of the shifter operates differently than the 6, and needs to be changed along with the cables?

How does the Audi/Passat 6 speed compare to the Boxster, or would that even work?
dakotaewing
Tony,

I have the shift linkage indicated in the second photo minus the cable bracket, which can be bought new for about $40.
What I don't have is in the first photo, which is needed per the PET, from what I can see.
Am I wrong?

PS - Sorry for the highjack -
914forme
Generally the same, slight difference in CV flanges, shifter mechanisms maybe? One true difference if you can find one is get the one out of a TDI, taller gears, diesels make torques, and do not like to spin fast, thus taller gearing.

Sad news they are darn near unattainable in the states, VW never imported a 6 speed TDI Passat for public consumption. You need to find people over in the UK that will be willing to send one over. TDIclub has a couple importers in the vendor section that will do that. Canada might also be a shot.
ClayPerrine
The G86-21 transmission has different cable attachments. And they all came with the transmission, so I didn't have to buy anything extra.

Click to view attachment

I had to alter the cable attachment points because they interfered with the starter. From the factory the cable pulls the bellcrank which works the left/right gate selection. That cable now runs across the top and pulls directly on the arm without any bell cranks.

IPB Image
IPB Image

Doing that prevents using the stock boxster/cayman shifter.

For a V-8 car, you wouldn't have to do this, so the stock shifter would work.

I have been told the G86-20 transmission is stronger than the G86-21. But the G86-21 was used in the GT4, so I figure it is strong enough for me.

tygaboy
[quote name='partwerks' date='Oct 6 2019, 02:33 PM' post='2752706']

[/quote]

What is the numberic shifter?

[/quote]

This is the Numeric shifter.
Cracker
I do not have those pieces on my box...it looks like they go to the later G86-21 box.

Cracker

QUOTE(dakotaewing @ Oct 6 2019, 08:01 PM) *

Tony,

What I don't have is in the first photo, which is needed per the PET, from what I can see.
Am I wrong?

partwerks
QUOTE(914forme @ Oct 6 2019, 04:03 PM) *

Generally the same, slight difference in CV flanges, shifter mechanisms maybe? One true difference if you can find one is get the one out of a TDI, taller gears, diesels make torques, and do not like to spin fast, thus taller gearing.

Sad news they are darn near unattainable in the states, VW never imported a 6 speed TDI Passat for public consumption. You need to find people over in the UK that will be willing to send one over. TDIclub has a couple importers in the vendor section that will do that. Canada might also be a shot.


Or would it be better just sticking with the 6 speed Boxster trans?
partwerks
I'm guessing that the adapter plate I have for the 5 speed, won't work with the 6 speed, even though I had them put the holes in for a 6, was probably a waste of time??
Cracker
Ok. I called Kennedy Engineering today for you...I do not have good news. According to them, the base Boxster 5-speed adapter plate will not work with the Boxster S 6-speed. It does not matter whether or not you drilled the mounting holes.

The "kit" they sell includes everything needed to mate the 6-speed an LS engine. It costs about $2,800 + shipping.

Good luck!

Tony
partwerks
QUOTE(Cracker @ Oct 8 2019, 03:44 PM) *

Ok. I called Kennedy Engineering today for you...I do not have good news. According to them, the base Boxster 5-speed adapter plate will not work with the Boxster S 6-speed. It does not matter whether or not you drilled the mounting holes.

The "kit" they sell includes everything needed to mate the 6-speed an LS engine. It costs about $2,800 + shipping.

Good luck!

Tony


Thanks Tony!

I am still waiting for a reply back from kitcarchassis.com, if the starter I now have, will work on the 6 speed, and my current adapter plate.

So far this is what I have heard back:
Yes, the 5 and 6 speed use the same holes. The early 6 speed uses a couple of less holes than the 5 speed and later 6 speed but they are located in the same places. You just need the correct clutch for which ever transmission you are using.
I will have to check part numbers but I think you will need a full clutch kit.

Click to view attachment
Robarabian
Okay.. someone knew this was going to get asked.... but has anyone mated a Boxter S transmission to a Subaru Turbo motor? (EJ 20 or EJ 25)

914forme
yes it has been done
FL000
QUOTE(partwerks @ Oct 6 2019, 07:15 PM) *

QUOTE(914forme @ Oct 6 2019, 04:03 PM) *

Generally the same, slight difference in CV flanges, shifter mechanisms maybe? One true difference if you can find one is get the one out of a TDI, taller gears, diesels make torques, and do not like to spin fast, thus taller gearing.

Sad news they are darn near unattainable in the states, VW never imported a 6 speed TDI Passat for public consumption. You need to find people over in the UK that will be willing to send one over. TDIclub has a couple importers in the vendor section that will do that. Canada might also be a shot.


Or would it be better just sticking with the 6 speed Boxster trans?


Depends, I am installing an Audi 01E 6 speed mainly because I have a gen 1 SBC and and I wanted the taller gearing to match my RPM limits better. I think in the scheme of things it will be a worthwhile investment once complete. I would hav went with the Boxster otherwise for price.
partwerks
QUOTE(914forme @ Oct 8 2019, 05:43 PM) *

yes it has been done


These pictures are of a 6 speed version, but the 5 speed will use the same adapter plate and flywheel. (Subie)

I wonder, since the 5/6 can both be used on that adapter plate I have then.
Would the starter on the 5 be in the same postion as the 6?
andys
QUOTE(partwerks @ Oct 8 2019, 06:23 PM) *

QUOTE(Cracker @ Oct 8 2019, 03:44 PM) *

Ok. I called Kennedy Engineering today for you...I do not have good news. According to them, the base Boxster 5-speed adapter plate will not work with the Boxster S 6-speed. It does not matter whether or not you drilled the mounting holes.

The "kit" they sell includes everything needed to mate the 6-speed an LS engine. It costs about $2,800 + shipping.

Good luck!

Tony


Thanks Tony!

I am still waiting for a reply back from kitcarchassis.com, if the starter I now have, will work on the 6 speed, and my current adapter plate.

So far this is what I have heard back:
Yes, the 5 and 6 speed use the same holes. The early 6 speed uses a couple of less holes than the 5 speed and later 6 speed but they are located in the same places. You just need the correct clutch for which ever transmission you are using.
I will have to check part numbers but I think you will need a full clutch kit.




Tony's got it right. The next statement in the post may confuse some, so......the 5 and 6 speeds use the same hole pattern if the 5 speed (Boxster) is the 012 version, and the 6 speed (Audi) is the 01E version. If I recall correctly, the 012 and the 01E use different clutch kits. They have nothing in common with the Boxster S 6 speed.
Kennedy (KEP) is 5 minutes from my office.
Andys
partwerks
QUOTE(andys @ Oct 9 2019, 07:28 AM) *

QUOTE(partwerks @ Oct 8 2019, 06:23 PM) *

QUOTE(Cracker @ Oct 8 2019, 03:44 PM) *

Ok. I called Kennedy Engineering today for you...I do not have good news. According to them, the base Boxster 5-speed adapter plate will not work with the Boxster S 6-speed. It does not matter whether or not you drilled the mounting holes.

The "kit" they sell includes everything needed to mate the 6-speed an LS engine. It costs about $2,800 + shipping.

Good luck!

Tony


Thanks Tony!

I am still waiting for a reply back from kitcarchassis.com, if the starter I now have, will work on the 6 speed, and my current adapter plate.

So far this is what I have heard back:
Yes, the 5 and 6 speed use the same holes. The early 6 speed uses a couple of less holes than the 5 speed and later 6 speed but they are located in the same places. You just need the correct clutch for which ever transmission you are using.
I will have to check part numbers but I think you will need a full clutch kit.




Tony's got it right. The next statement in the post may confuse some, so......the 5 and 6 speeds use the same hole pattern if the 5 speed (Boxster) is the 012 version, and the 6 speed (Audi) is the 01E version. If I recall correctly, the 012 and the 01E use different clutch kits. They have nothing in common with the Boxster S 6 speed.
Kennedy (KEP) is 5 minutes from my office.
Andys



According to the guy I got the adapter plate from (kitcarchassis.com)

Yes, everything is the same except the clutch. The 6-speed has a larger input shaft.
I would just need the clutch kit. (Spec SP892S) Clutch, PP, TOB, and he wasn't sure about the pilot bearing??
Said that 99-04 Boxster "S" are more favorable with taller gears.

That would use a Spec SP892S for a stage 2 or a SP893S for a stage 3. The S on the end indicates a sprung clutch disc.
I buy my clutches from this company, http://sohiperformance.com/
Cracker
Good luck.

Cracker
Tdskip
Nothing to add except WOW guys, some neat engineering work. Thanks for the thread.
dakotaewing
I must be getting old... $650 for a mass production clutch and pressure plate for a street car just seems absolutely ridiculous.
Got any other options?
I'm fairly confident I have the same adapter plate and flywheel for my car -

Thom

QUOTE(partwerks @ Oct 9 2019, 07:28 PM) *

QUOTE(andys @ Oct 9 2019, 07:28 AM) *

QUOTE(partwerks @ Oct 8 2019, 06:23 PM) *

QUOTE(Cracker @ Oct 8 2019, 03:44 PM) *

Ok. I called Kennedy Engineering today for you...I do not have good news. According to them, the base Boxster 5-speed adapter plate will not work with the Boxster S 6-speed. It does not matter whether or not you drilled the mounting holes.

The "kit" they sell includes everything needed to mate the 6-speed an LS engine. It costs about $2,800 + shipping.

Good luck!

Tony


Thanks Tony!

I am still waiting for a reply back from kitcarchassis.com, if the starter I now have, will work on the 6 speed, and my current adapter plate.

So far this is what I have heard back:
Yes, the 5 and 6 speed use the same holes. The early 6 speed uses a couple of less holes than the 5 speed and later 6 speed but they are located in the same places. You just need the correct clutch for which ever transmission you are using.
I will have to check part numbers but I think you will need a full clutch kit.




Tony's got it right. The next statement in the post may confuse some, so......the 5 and 6 speeds use the same hole pattern if the 5 speed (Boxster) is the 012 version, and the 6 speed (Audi) is the 01E version. If I recall correctly, the 012 and the 01E use different clutch kits. They have nothing in common with the Boxster S 6 speed.
Kennedy (KEP) is 5 minutes from my office.
Andys



According to the guy I got the adapter plate from (kitcarchassis.com)

Yes, everything is the same except the clutch. The 6-speed has a larger input shaft.
I would just need the clutch kit. (Spec SP892S) Clutch, PP, TOB, and he wasn't sure about the pilot bearing??
Said that 99-04 Boxster "S" are more favorable with taller gears.

That would use a Spec SP892S for a stage 2 or a SP893S for a stage 3. The S on the end indicates a sprung clutch disc.
I buy my clutches from this company, http://sohiperformance.com/



partwerks
QUOTE(dakotaewing @ Oct 11 2019, 01:11 PM) *

I must be getting old... $650 for a mass production clutch and pressure plate for a street car just seems absolutely ridiculous.
Got any other options?
I'm fairly confident I have the same adapter plate and flywheel for my car -

Thom

Sounds like Kennedy is even more expensive.

Not sure if Renegade would sell just the clutch kit, or not?


$2450 914 LS Boxster S Adapter kit and clutch package upgrade charge (normally $2995 without basic kit order)



QUOTE(partwerks @ Oct 9 2019, 07:28 PM) *

QUOTE(andys @ Oct 9 2019, 07:28 AM) *

QUOTE(partwerks @ Oct 8 2019, 06:23 PM) *

QUOTE(Cracker @ Oct 8 2019, 03:44 PM) *

Ok. I called Kennedy Engineering today for you...I do not have good news. According to them, the base Boxster 5-speed adapter plate will not work with the Boxster S 6-speed. It does not matter whether or not you drilled the mounting holes.

The "kit" they sell includes everything needed to mate the 6-speed an LS engine. It costs about $2,800 + shipping.

Good luck!

Tony


Thanks Tony!

I am still waiting for a reply back from kitcarchassis.com, if the starter I now have, will work on the 6 speed, and my current adapter plate.

So far this is what I have heard back:
Yes, the 5 and 6 speed use the same holes. The early 6 speed uses a couple of less holes than the 5 speed and later 6 speed but they are located in the same places. You just need the correct clutch for which ever transmission you are using.
I will have to check part numbers but I think you will need a full clutch kit.




Tony's got it right. The next statement in the post may confuse some, so......the 5 and 6 speeds use the same hole pattern if the 5 speed (Boxster) is the 012 version, and the 6 speed (Audi) is the 01E version. If I recall correctly, the 012 and the 01E use different clutch kits. They have nothing in common with the Boxster S 6 speed.
Kennedy (KEP) is 5 minutes from my office.
Andys



According to the guy I got the adapter plate from (kitcarchassis.com)

Yes, everything is the same except the clutch. The 6-speed has a larger input shaft.
I would just need the clutch kit. (Spec SP892S) Clutch, PP, TOB, and he wasn't sure about the pilot bearing??
Said that 99-04 Boxster "S" are more favorable with taller gears.

That would use a Spec SP892S for a stage 2 or a SP893S for a stage 3. The S on the end indicates a sprung clutch disc.
I buy my clutches from this company, http://sohiperformance.com/


partwerks
Would this clutch work, or is it heavy enough?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/luk-20-0...odel/roadster-s

Also, what is the difference between the Boxster S, and the Boxster S Cayman?
partwerks
QUOTE(tygaboy @ Oct 5 2019, 01:38 PM) *

The Boxster S trans is the G86-20. All of those have the same gearing. I have an LS3 with that trans. Tony @Cracker runs an LS7 with his. No issues with over 500 hp.



Is there any difference between the Boxster S, and the Boxster S Cayman?

Also, was wondering about the TDI version from UK in comparison?

Mike Bellis
There are two (2) different 6 speed bellhousing bolt patterns.

One type looks similar to the 5 speed. The other is completely different and almost perfectly round (O), where as the 5/6 speed type is like a slanted "A" pattern.

The "O" type is more often found on the LS motor. The "A" type is more often found on the SBC.

Which transmission type do you have? What adapter kit do you have? SBC and LS are completely different and nothing swaps.

Sounds like you're trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

This has been going on for a year or more. I'm not understanding why you don't just buy the correct crap and finish the car. You're going to waste more money trying to fix the problem the just spending the $3k for the right kit. At the end you probably spend the $3k too.

If you don't know what you're doing and your builder does not know what he is doing... You are wasting your money! Box up all the parts and ship it to someone that does. Embrace the suck...
SirAndy
QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Oct 13 2019, 09:24 PM) *
Embrace the suck...

biggrin.gif
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