Early versus late 1974 |
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Early versus late 1974 |
Lockwodo |
Jan 19 2022, 07:47 PM
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 199 Joined: 23-December 21 From: Santa Cruz, Californnia Member No.: 26,193 Region Association: Northern California |
Would anyone happen to know what the breakpoint in VIN #s is for "early" 1974 versus "late" 1974 914s?
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sixnotfour |
Jan 19 2022, 07:49 PM
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#2
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 10,392 Joined: 12-September 04 From: Life Elevated..planet UT. Member No.: 2,744 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
there is early and late 73's
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billh1963 |
Jan 19 2022, 07:57 PM
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#3
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Car Hoarder! Group: Members Posts: 3,402 Joined: 28-March 11 From: South Carolina Member No.: 12,871 Region Association: South East States |
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Van B |
Jan 19 2022, 08:12 PM
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#4
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,581 Joined: 20-October 21 From: Maryland Member No.: 26,011 Region Association: None |
What are you looking for; engine or chassis differences?
@wonkipop has done a fair bit of work mapping out the changes for the 1.8L |
JeffBowlsby |
Jan 19 2022, 08:44 PM
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#5
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914 Wiring Harnesses Group: Members Posts: 8,438 Joined: 7-January 03 From: San Ramon CA Member No.: 104 Region Association: None |
I have owned both 'early and late' '74 2.0Ls.
Do not know of a definitive list of changes, nor the VIN inflection point which seems to be a progressive set of dates depending on the change, not a single date. The factory parts manual may indicate changes to spcific parts associated with a VIN. Some differences: -silver center gauges changed to black center gauges -charcoal canister relocated from fuel tank to engine bay rear wall -carpeting changed from solid colors to 'salt and pepper' patterns -a brief period of a few weeks in Spring of 74 when grey headlight relay covers were installed -fuel expansion chamber and fuel tank cap changed from metal to plastic Interestingly, the Can Am cars produced in the Spring of 74 include a range of these changes. Thats all I can think of right now. |
Lockwodo |
Jan 19 2022, 08:59 PM
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 199 Joined: 23-December 21 From: Santa Cruz, Californnia Member No.: 26,193 Region Association: Northern California |
Well, what started me wondering is that in the 914/4 Tech Notebook there are two vacuum hose diagrams applicable to the '74 2.0, attributed to Jeff Bowlsby. One is for "1973 thru early 1974" and the other is for "late 1974". Sounds like there isn't a VIN cutoff point, so I'll just compare both diagrams to what I've got and see which matches. It's probably the late 1974 diagram since I have the black center gauges and charcoal canister in the engine compartment.
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wonkipop |
Jan 19 2022, 10:02 PM
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#7
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,159 Joined: 6-May 20 From: north antarctica Member No.: 24,231 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille |
@Lockwodo
this might answer some of your questions. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=357407 some of us 1.8 owners put our heads together last year. the idea of early and late 74s might be a bit of a myth. least when it comes to 1.8s and vac hoses and cans specifically. charcoal can gets changed very early in the 74 production run (nov 73) - about a months worth of 1.8s had cans in the frunk. 2 different vac hose layouts to the throttle body are simultaneous. one layout for california, one for the 49 states. all in the thread linked above. jeff bowlsby and others know all about the 2.0s. and some of those other detail changes, gauges etc. thanks to jeff's prompt we embarked on clarifying the 1,8s engine hose layouts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
JeffBowlsby |
Jan 19 2022, 10:21 PM
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#8
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914 Wiring Harnesses Group: Members Posts: 8,438 Joined: 7-January 03 From: San Ramon CA Member No.: 104 Region Association: None |
QUOTE And you did an excellent job with that research, thank you. |
Dave_Darling |
Jan 19 2022, 11:13 PM
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#9
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,974 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California |
It's probably the late 1974 diagram since I have the black center gauges and charcoal canister in the engine compartment. I think that the only difference in terms of hoses is that the earlier 74s have the charcoal canister up front, like the 70-73 cars do, while the later 74s have it in the engine bay like the 75+ cars do. My 10/73 build 2.0 has the front-mounted canister. My old 1.8, which I think was also built around 10/73 according to the door jamb tag, had the canister in the engine bay. --DD |
wonkipop |
Jan 20 2022, 03:36 AM
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#10
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,159 Joined: 6-May 20 From: north antarctica Member No.: 24,231 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille |
It's probably the late 1974 diagram since I have the black center gauges and charcoal canister in the engine compartment. I think that the only difference in terms of hoses is that the earlier 74s have the charcoal canister up front, like the 70-73 cars do, while the later 74s have it in the engine bay like the 75+ cars do. My 10/73 build 2.0 has the front-mounted canister. My old 1.8, which I think was also built around 10/73 according to the door jamb tag, had the canister in the engine bay. --DD we finished off what you started more than 10 years ago dave. between you and jeff - what you guys had down on the record together, the old how many hoses from distributor to throttle body - and why - was crackable. bit of head scratching and 50 years after it all went down in western germany, i think we got to the bottom of it,. i read a few of your comments on other sites and here from a decade ago and i commend your open minded-ness and reporting on what you saw on the objects themselves. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
Lockwodo |
Jan 20 2022, 08:35 AM
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 199 Joined: 23-December 21 From: Santa Cruz, Californnia Member No.: 26,193 Region Association: Northern California |
Thanks guys, this is all super helpful! I'm new to 914s and air cooled VW engines and appreciate the wealth of info and helpful pointers from this community.
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wonkipop |
Jan 20 2022, 12:57 PM
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#12
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,159 Joined: 6-May 20 From: north antarctica Member No.: 24,231 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille |
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dr914@autoatlanta.com |
Jan 20 2022, 01:03 PM
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#13
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 7,770 Joined: 3-January 07 From: atlanta georgia Member No.: 7,418 Region Association: None |
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dr914@autoatlanta.com |
Jan 20 2022, 01:05 PM
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#14
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 7,770 Joined: 3-January 07 From: atlanta georgia Member No.: 7,418 Region Association: None |
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lesorubcheek |
Jan 20 2022, 04:58 PM
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 193 Joined: 21-April 21 From: Florida Member No.: 25,463 Region Association: South East States |
One change that is referenced in the PET for 1974 was the brake pressure regulator. The PET calls out VIN 4742915751 as the changeover point. No idea if the other changes listed have any correlation with this VIN.
Dan |
wonkipop |
Jan 20 2022, 08:09 PM
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#16
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,159 Joined: 6-May 20 From: north antarctica Member No.: 24,231 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille |
One change that is referenced in the PET for 1974 was the brake pressure regulator. The PET calls out VIN 4742915751 as the changeover point. No idea if the other changes listed have any correlation with this VIN. Dan no. its not to do with that vin. and much as i respect dr914, its not a start of jan 74 thing either. at least for some of the changes. the charcoal can shift (for 1,8s) is between vin 09104 and 09760 - which dates at between 20 and 28 Nov 73. the 2 different 1.8 hose set ups for dist advance and retard has nothing to do with a changeover at a date. california cars from the start are no advance hook up, 49 state cars are advance and retard hook up. that was established beyond a doubt. the documents which clarify which are which are houseed in the CARB (california air resources board) archive. one of our members here L-JET914 found the documents. production of 1.8s does not commence until very late october 73. i'm not sure whether that was well known. i'm guessing knowledgable folks here already knew that. from august to late october 73 the factory produced 2.0 L cars exclusively it would seem. possibly euro spec 1.8s were produced before late oct 73. as to other changes. some folks have the dates for things like petrol tank change to plastic. silver versus black dials. i think mr. b (jeff) has a handle on quite a bit of it all. i would agree with his view that its more random and the changes don't all happen at once at or around one date. all we 1.8 owners found to add to the information was. 1) a narrowing down of the window on the charcoal can to a week in november. (this date may have already been pinpointed by dr. johnson - i don't have his latest edition of restorer's guide to see what he said). that change seems to occur just after the factory commenced production of 1.8s in oct 73. 2) documentation that confirmed there were two types of EC engines. An A and a B. simultaneously produced. one for calif. one for rest of USA. this cleared up the mystery and debate around hoses that occurred a decade ago. additionally members had access to information that said where cars had been originally sold new. this confirmed that there was one vac hose set up for cal cars and the other for USA. what we found is all in that thread i linked. |
davep |
Jan 21 2022, 09:18 AM
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#17
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914 Historian Group: Benefactors Posts: 5,132 Joined: 13-October 03 From: Burford, ON, N0E 1A0 Member No.: 1,244 Region Association: Canada |
There is also the matter of the location of the Karmann body # which moved from the rear trunk floor to a tag in the front trunk. The change was probably in April with a VIN in the 16000 range. See this thread:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=76497 |
Mark Henry |
Jan 21 2022, 09:39 AM
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#18
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
It also depends on what was in the parts bin that day, VW was famous for using up what's on hand.
My 914 is a November '73 build, no silver dots. |
StarBear |
Jan 21 2022, 10:16 AM
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#19
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,829 Joined: 2-September 09 From: NJ Member No.: 10,753 Region Association: North East States |
QUOTE And you did an excellent job with that research, thank you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) |
wonkipop |
Jan 21 2022, 08:10 PM
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#20
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,159 Joined: 6-May 20 From: north antarctica Member No.: 24,231 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille |
It also depends on what was in the parts bin that day, VW was famous for using up what's on hand. My 914 is a November '73 build, no silver dots. @Mark Henry mark, was your car a 1.8 or 2.0 new? |
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