Rebuilding a 1.7, Want to rebuild my 1.7, need as much help as I can get Options

[barnfind9141972]

Hi everyone, given how awesome this site is and the wealth of knowledge I’d like to do what seems like the best option for me and that is get my 914 on the road and keep it on the road. Need some help, advice, how to’s, anything that could help me build the motor. I’m mechanically inclined, I’ve built an engine before on a 2.5 Nissan Sentra (i know dark times before) but only did the easy stuff like assemble after a machinist put the crank and rods in. I’ve been restoring in the garage for about a month or so and although the engine “ran” when parked 20 years ago it seems like the right time to rebuild. What parts should I use, any good videos to watch, anything to read, how can an average guy like me split the case open and handle the rebuild step by step while killing time in the garage? Open to suggestions on displacement, fuel delivery, places for machine work, any suggestions and even sarcasm are accepted. Big fan of Ian Karr so have been watching his videos, just waiting for the final release of his engine build for more insight Thanks everyone! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif)

[dlee6204]

What is your goal with your car? Are you just wanting to get it on the road or are you planning a full restoration? I ask because if you're just trying to get it on the road I would first do some investigating to see if your motor even needs a rebuild. A compression test and draining the oil/inspecting the sump would be my first course of action.

If you decide with the rebuild are you looking to keep it stock or go for more power? How do you plan to drive the car?

[cary]

http://www.bugmevideo.com/volume8.html

Here's where I started. After rebuilding a few L16 & L20 510's in my youth.
Old school adhesives ..................

[Al Meredith]

read my ad in the classified section of this forum, I have a rebuilt 1.7 for sale that you could install while you are rebuilding your existing engine . The problem is the freight to California is not worth the good deal on the engine. You will get all kinds of info on this site , All Good, but let me suggest " How to Rebuild your Volkswaqen Engine" by Tom Wilson. It is available from many VW and Book sites . It does cover the TY4 engine as well. AL

[Shivers]

Hey dude. First I would take it apart and look and see what you have that is still good. I had my 1.7 case / heads cut for 2.0 cylinders and put in a 2.0 crank and rods. You don't have to go crazy from there. I ported the heads, put in a counter balanced crank, an appropriate cam, cut the flywheel and put in a better flowing exhaust. Fuel delivery is a hot topic. If your a fuel injection fan lots of people can help here. I went a different way. It's not a hard engine to build, take your time. I see you are another desert dweller, I'm adding a front oil cooler for summer.

[Mcraneiowa]

I was in the same situation you are about 10 months ago. Decided to purchase a 914 1.8 L. First thing I did was check it for a compression, drain the oil, run an oil sample which you can pick up from any local oil distributor for nominal fee. This will tell you if you have metallic particle due to wear or a likely catastrophic failure in the making. It will also inform you if there is excessive dirt, fuel, etc. all in one report for about 20 bucks.

Important to make sure everything works, brakes, clutch(mine was initially stuck but got it freed up), etc and get the car running. Once you head down that road you can then decide how far you want to take your project. Once you start replacing, updating, you will sink more money into it than you can imagine. That will help keep costs down and give you time to decide just how far you want to take this project.

When I got my car there was very little rust but the floors were starting to get spongy and had a hole here and there, so I replaced them and did find some rust around the engine area. Fortunately mine was pretty light in regards to some of the pictures I’ve seen on the site. Fixed all that, I got my car running, made sure the brakes were solid and took it out for its first test drive only to find the clutch was worn out. By this time I had played with it enough that I thought well since I’m pulling the engine again, I might as well update all the seals, powder coat the tins, clean up the engine, make sure the temperature bellows work properly, etc.. I replaced seals in the transmission while a part, replaced the fly wheel clutch etc. Just doing that project alone cost about two grand. I would say for me it’s worth, it as I want to end up with a dependable driver. Someday, I may decide I want to strip it all back down and take it step further. At least I know the mechanicals are solid. Good luck and enjoy..

[barnfind9141972]

What is your goal with your car? Are you just wanting to get it on the road or are you planning a full restoration? I ask because if you're just trying to get it on the road I would first do some investigating to see if your motor even needs a rebuild. A compression test and draining the oil/inspecting the sump would be my first course of action.

If you decide with the rebuild are you looking to keep it stock or go for more power? How do you plan to drive the car?

@dlee6204 I’d like to do an in garage restoration if possible. I’m planing on fixing rust, repainting myself, and then trying to tackle getting the engine running strong and not installing and crossing my fingers just to take out soon. Spirited driving with daily driving and a few auto crosses. I like the stock feel of a 914 don’t get me wrong but definitely want to bump the power where ever I can!

[barnfind9141972]

http://www.bugmevideo.com/volume8.html

Here's where I started. After rebuilding a few L16 & L20 510's in my youth.
Old school adhesives ..................

@cary thank you so much for this, you rock! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[barnfind9141972]

read my ad in the classified section of this forum, I have a rebuilt 1.7 for sale that you could install while you are rebuilding your existing engine . The problem is the freight to California is not worth the good deal on the engine. You will get all kinds of info on this site , All Good, but let me suggest " How to Rebuild your Volkswaqen Engine" by Tom Wilson. It is available from many VW and Book sites . It does cover the TY4 engine as well. AL

@almeredith I did see your engine, several times hahaha. I contemplated multiple times but that was exact problem was the freight to CA. It’s a nice piece though, I will research here and also get those books to help me out. Thanks a lot for the help! Yours is carbed right? What was your reason, very interested in the differences without the original FI emotions (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[barnfind9141972]

Hey dude. First I would take it apart and look and see what you have that is still good. I had my 1.7 case / heads cut for 2.0 cylinders and put in a 2.0 crank and rods. You don't have to go crazy from there. I ported the heads, put in a counter balanced crank, an appropriate cam, cut the flywheel and put in a better flowing exhaust. Fuel delivery is a hot topic. If your a fuel injection fan lots of people can help here. I went a different way. It's not a hard engine to build, take your time. I see you are another desert dweller, I'm adding a front oil cooler for summer.

@shivers that’s exactly what I want to do! Did you do most of the work yourself and if so where did you source the parts? I’m interested in what you did with the flywheel and the exhaust route you took? I’m not faithful to FI or carbs but I’m super interested in what carbs you went with and how you like it as I’m not opposed to anything. That’s awesome, I’m hoping by summer I have the targa top off and cruising around maybe we’ll bump into each other! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[barnfind9141972]

I was in the same situation you are about 10 months ago. Decided to purchase a 914 1.8 L. First thing I did was check it for a compression, drain the oil, run an oil sample which you can pick up from any local oil distributor for nominal fee. This will tell you if you have metallic particle due to wear or a likely catastrophic failure in the making. It will also inform you if there is excessive dirt, fuel, etc. all in one report for about 20 bucks.

Important to make sure everything works, brakes, clutch(mine was initially stuck but got it freed up), etc and get the car running. Once you head down that road you can then decide how far you want to take your project. Once you start replacing, updating, you will sink more money into it than you can imagine. That will help keep costs down and give you time to decide just how far you want to take this project.

When I got my car there was very little rust but the floors were starting to get spongy and had a hole here and there, so I replaced them and did find some rust around the engine area. Fortunately mine was pretty light in regards to some of the pictures I’ve seen on the site. Fixed all that, I got my car running, made sure the brakes were solid and took it out for its first test drive only to find the clutch was worn out. By this time I had played with it enough that I thought well since I’m pulling the engine again, I might as well update all the seals, powder coat the tins, clean up the engine, make sure the temperature bellows work properly, etc.. I replaced seals in the transmission while a part, replaced the fly wheel clutch etc. Just doing that project alone cost about two grand. I would say for me it’s worth, it as I want to end up with a dependable driver. Someday, I may decide I want to strip it all back down and take it step further. At least I know the mechanicals are solid. Good luck and enjoy..

@Mcraneiowa I’d say we’re in the same boat, the rust I would say is great in comparison to the horrors I’ve seen here and google. I’d like to do the same but also do paint and body work. I’d like to keep the same block for VIN purposes and go up in displacement possibly. Your set up is a work of art, hopefully mine looks almost as good. Worth it here too, want something I can jump into whenever I want and go wherever I want to go. What exhaust setup did you go with, very nice and I see you kept heat exchangers. I’m debating going European headers since I’m CA no real cold starts and no heater needed in the desert. Thanks!

[Shivers]

Hey dude. First I would take it apart and look and see what you have that is still good. I had my 1.7 case / heads cut for 2.0 cylinders and put in a 2.0 crank and rods. You don't have to go crazy from there. I ported the heads, put in a counter balanced crank, an appropriate cam, cut the flywheel and put in a better flowing exhaust. Fuel delivery is a hot topic. If your a fuel injection fan lots of people can help here. I went a different way. It's not a hard engine to build, take your time. I see you are another desert dweller, I'm adding a front oil cooler for summer.

@shivers that’s exactly what I want to do! Did you do most of the work yourself and if so where did you source the parts? I’m interested in what you did with the flywheel and the exhaust route you took? I’m not faithful to FI or carbs but I’m super interested in what carbs you went with and how you like it as I’m not opposed to anything. That’s awesome, I’m hoping by summer I have the targa top off and cruising around maybe we’ll bump into each other! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Lot's of places to get parts for the engine. How much do you want to spend. Flywheel I had cut to 13 lbs, that is a plus-minus modification. Quick deceleration but less mass for driving around town. Takes a little more work from light to light, but fun in the twisties. Most of the aftermarket stainless steel heat exchangers are 1 1/8 " ID or bigger. They come in a 1.7 and a 2.0 version. Easier to get a good exhaust system for the 2.0 version. I'm running weber 40 idf with cb performance spray bars and venturi kits. I like them.

[barnfind9141972]

Hey dude. First I would take it apart and look and see what you have that is still good. I had my 1.7 case / heads cut for 2.0 cylinders and put in a 2.0 crank and rods. You don't have to go crazy from there. I ported the heads, put in a counter balanced crank, an appropriate cam, cut the flywheel and put in a better flowing exhaust. Fuel delivery is a hot topic. If your a fuel injection fan lots of people can help here. I went a different way. It's not a hard engine to build, take your time. I see you are another desert dweller, I'm adding a front oil cooler for summer.

@shivers that’s exactly what I want to do! Did you do most of the work yourself and if so where did you source the parts? I’m interested in what you did with the flywheel and the exhaust route you took? I’m not faithful to FI or carbs but I’m super interested in what carbs you went with and how you like it as I’m not opposed to anything. That’s awesome, I’m hoping by summer I have the targa top off and cruising around maybe we’ll bump into each other! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Lot's of places to get parts for the engine. How much do you want to spend. Flywheel I had cut to 13 lbs, that is a plus-minus modification. Quick deceleration but less mass for driving around town. Takes a little more work from light to light, but fun in the twisties. Most of the aftermarket stainless steel heat exchangers are 1 1/8 " ID or bigger. They come in a 1.7 and a 2.0 version. Easier to get a good exhaust system for the 2.0 version. I'm running weber 40 idf with cb performance spray bars and venturi kits. I like them.

@shivers I’d love to still have a house and a wife when all is set and done but don’t mind making the right purchases the first time around so it can be the last. What parts and places did you go with? Would love some examples. Being in the desert, where did you get the machining done to make all of it fit? Debating the flywheel option, do the 2.0 exhaust systems mount to the 1.7?

[Shivers]

I did this build many years ago. I was working in el toro, so I dropped off a crank at Scat enterprises. They made the counter balanced crank. Rods were stock and were balanced along with the pistons. I went with Kolbenschmidt euro flat top pistons and barrels. Machine work was done in Torrance, I don't remember the name of the place. Flycut the heads and case for barrels, line bored the case one over to true up the case for the new crank.
ARB fasteners, case savers and had the oil plugs on the back of the case (between case and flywheel) removed and welded up. When you decide what type of fuel delivery you'll use, you can speak to someone about a cam.

[barnfind9141972]

I did this build many years ago. I was working in el toro, so I dropped off a crank at Scat enterprises. They made the counter balanced crank. Rods were stock and were balanced along with the pistons. I went with Kolbenschmidt euro flat top pistons and barrels. Machine work was done in Torrance, I don't remember the name of the place. Flycut the heads and case for barrels, line bored the case one over to true up the case for the new crank.
ARB fasteners, case savers and had the oil plugs on the back of the case (between case and flywheel) removed and welded up. When you decide what type of fuel delivery you'll use, you can speak to someone about a cam.

@shivers sounds like a work of art thank you, leaning towards carbs more and more everyday!

[bbrock]

sounds like a work of art thank you, leaning towards carbs more and more everyday!

In the late 80s I tore down my engine and rebuilt the short block. The original FI had become unreliable and be pre-Internet days, info on how to restore it was unavailable so I installed a carb cam and bought a pair of Webers. Then the project went on hold for decades and I am just now finishing the engine. I'm kind of "stuck" with the Webers. I'm excited to learn how they perform, but if I were to do this over today, I would have definitely stayed with the original D-Jet FI and may yet go back to it after running these carbs for a few years.

Among other downsides to carbs is that the induction noise can be quite loud. Some people like it and others have gone as far as wearing ear plugs when they drive. Neither were appealing to me for daily driving or comfortable touring so I built a custom air intake to silence them. Time will tell if it works.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-20845-1606710294.jpg)

[barnfind9141972]

sounds like a work of art thank you, leaning towards carbs more and more everyday!

In the late 80s I tore down my engine and rebuilt the short block. The original FI had become unreliable and be pre-Internet days, info on how to restore it was unavailable so I installed a carb cam and bought a pair of Webers. Then the project went on hold for decades and I am just now finishing the engine. I'm kind of "stuck" with the Webers. I'm excited to learn how they perform, but if I were to do this over today, I would have definitely stayed with the original D-Jet FI and may yet go back to it after running these carbs for a few years.

Among other downsides to carbs is that the induction noise can be quite loud. Some people like it and others have gone as far as wearing ear plugs when they drive. Neither were appealing to me for daily driving or comfortable touring so I built a custom air intake to silence them. Time will tell if it works.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-20845-1606710294.jpg)

You are the man, have been binge reading your build for the last few days awesome work! I have a fuel FI system so will have it as a back up and go back if it’s super annoying, I’ll drive a lot but not sure if I’ll be able to daily drive. Keep up the good work!

[bbrock]

You are the man, have been binge reading your build for the last few days awesome work! I have a fuel FI system so will have it as a back up and go back if it’s super annoying, I’ll drive a lot but not sure if I’ll be able to daily drive. Keep up the good work!

The problem there is the camshaft. For carbs to run well requires a different camshaft than the stock FI so swapping between the two is not as simple as just unbolting one setup and bolting on the other. That's what locked me in. I didn't understand how "permanent" the decision to switch to carbs was once I buttoned up that short block with the carb cam inside. I don't expect my carbs to be super annoying but for a DD there doesn't seem to be much carbs give that a well sorted stock FI can't do better... except the appearance of the engine bay of course. Let's face it, the stock FI creates a cluttered rat's nest.


Thanks for the compliment. I just muddle along figuring it out as I go. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[barnfind9141972]

You are the man, have been binge reading your build for the last few days awesome work! I have a fuel FI system so will have it as a back up and go back if it’s super annoying, I’ll drive a lot but not sure if I’ll be able to daily drive. Keep up the good work!

The problem there is the camshaft. For carbs to run well requires a different camshaft than the stock FI so swapping between the two is not as simple as just unbolting one setup and bolting on the other. That's what locked me in. I didn't understand how "permanent" the decision to switch to carbs was once I buttoned up that short block with the carb cam inside. I don't expect my carbs to be super annoying but for a DD there doesn't seem to be much carbs give that a well sorted stock FI can't do better... except the appearance of the engine bay of course. Let's face it, the stock FI creates a cluttered rat's nest.


Thanks for the compliment. I just muddle along figuring it out as I go. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Yeah I’ll be locked in for the most part but I don’t think I’ll mind it too much, loud isn’t terrible as long as it sounds good. Considering my project started as a literal cluttered rats nest I’d like to make it as clean looking as possible haha. Rock on, will keep updates on your thread!

[Al Meredith]

BARNFIND, To answer your Question about carbs. When you install a "big" cam carb are a must . It is true that they are loud when sucking at full throttle but for me that's why I built a big engine. The reason you saw a single carb on the engine I have for sale is because it is on a test stand and it is easier to use one instead of having to install and balance Two.