Steel wheels hub centric? Options

[Stltri]

Are the OEM steel wheels hub centric? I am thinking of going with steels (cheaper and I think classier option) to replace my aftermarket EMPI 8-spoke wheels which are difficult to balance and "center" on my hubs (1974). I have tried the EMPI cone lug bolts (using the recommended sequential "star" pattern tightening technique) as well without luck. The tire center has tried rebalancing three times now using their Hunter machine. They said wheels are straight. The tires are all new. Alternatively, they recommended custom hub centering rings since they think the EMPI's are not sitting center on the hub.

[Tom_T]

Are the OEM steel wheels hub centric? I am thinking of going with steels (cheaper and I think classier option) to replace my aftermarket EMPI 8-spoke wheels which are difficult to balance and "center" on my hubs (1974). I have tried the EMPI cone lug bolts (using the recommended sequential "star" pattern tightening technique) as well without luck. The tire center has tried rebalancing three times now using their Hunter machine. They said wheels are straight. The tires are all new. Alternatively, they recommended custom hub centering rings since they think the EMPI's are not sitting center on the hub.

Yes for 73-76 MYs. The later 73-76 914 "Star Mag Look" Steelies are hubcentric.

70-72 MYs are not, & use the earlier steelies from those MYs.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Stltri]

Are the OEM steel wheels hub centric? I am thinking of going with steels (cheaper and I think classier option) to replace my aftermarket EMPI 8-spoke wheels which are difficult to balance and "center" on my hubs (1974). I have tried the EMPI cone lug bolts (using the recommended sequential "star" pattern tightening technique) as well without luck. The tire center has tried rebalancing three times now using their Hunter machine. They said wheels are straight. The tires are all new. Alternatively, they recommended custom hub centering rings since they think the EMPI's are not sitting center on the hub.

Yes for 73-76 MYs. The later 73-76 914 "Star Mag Look" Steelies are hubcentric.

70-72 MYs are not, & use the earlier steelies from those MYs.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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Tom,

How do I find out if the steel wheels are from 70-72 vs 73-76? The steel wheels I'm thinking of getting at are 4-bolt and has the + pattern in the middle, not a star. Is it by checking the serial numbers (just like the Mahle's have the -00 vs -01 serials of earlier vs later MY's)?

[ric birks]

Are the OEM steel wheels hub centric? I am thinking of going with steels (cheaper and I think classier option) to replace my aftermarket EMPI 8-spoke wheels which are difficult to balance and "center" on my hubs (1974). I have tried the EMPI cone lug bolts (using the recommended sequential "star" pattern tightening technique) as well without luck. The tire center has tried rebalancing three times now using their Hunter machine. They said wheels are straight. The tires are all new. Alternatively, they recommended custom hub centering rings since they think the EMPI's are not sitting center on the hub.

Yes for 73-76 MYs. The later 73-76 914 "Star Mag Look" Steelies are hubcentric.

70-72 MYs are not, & use the earlier steelies from those MYs.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

Tom,

How do I find out if the steel wheels are from 70-72 vs 73-76? The steel wheels I'm thinking of getting at are 4-bolt and has the + pattern in the middle, not a star. Is it by checking the serial numbers (just like the Mahle's have the -00 vs -01 serials of earlier vs later MY's)?

Steel wheels normally have a date stamp on each face.

[JamesM]

Are the OEM steel wheels hub centric? I am thinking of going with steels (cheaper and I think classier option) to replace my aftermarket EMPI 8-spoke wheels which are difficult to balance and "center" on my hubs (1974). I have tried the EMPI cone lug bolts (using the recommended sequential "star" pattern tightening technique) as well without luck. The tire center has tried rebalancing three times now using their Hunter machine. They said wheels are straight. The tires are all new. Alternatively, they recommended custom hub centering rings since they think the EMPI's are not sitting center on the hub.

While the later 73-76 front hubs do have a center ring, I dont know if I would consider them "hub centric" it helps but the wheels will still center on the conned lug bolts once tightened. In addition no rears ever had a centering ring. If the tire shop is balancing based on the center hole in your empis you may have an issue if that hole isnt perfectly centered.

Are you having an issue with one wheel or all four?

[DickSteinkamp]

How do I find out if the steel wheels are from 70-72 vs 73-76?

Early steel wheels...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/thumbs3.ebaystatic.com-20876-1571160588.1.jpg)



Late steel wheels...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/forums.pelicanparts.com-20876-1571160589.2.jpg)

[TargaToy]

And the early ones are the pretty ones. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Jamie]

And the early ones are the pretty ones. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

As long as you have the proper original hubcaps! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

[Superhawk996]

As previously noted, the rear hubs are not hub centric on any model year 914.

A Hunter tire balancer and/or road force machine can be set up do lug centric balancing. If you tire shop cannot do this, you have the wrong shop. You don't mention if they are balancing only or if they are using a road force machine. The road force machine is far more capable than a balance machine.

You may need to do some match mounting of the wheel and tire to get the best possible result.

Video's that show preferred method of mounting. Many shops just use cones and don't want to be bothered to properly set up their equipment for your needs.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E527BJlCpM



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9geFjcMCl-w



What is force matching or match mounting? Newer Hunter machines can measure rim runout via non-contact laser. How cool is that!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcQczQsNVz8

[Superhawk996]

FYI - you will not find better rim runout in a stamped steel wheel vs. aluminum due to the nature of the manufacturing process.

The advantage you may find on a steel wheel is that they actually have more wheel runout. This can be used to your benefit IF and ONLY IF you have a tire shop that knows what they are doing.

As mentioned in the match mount video posted above, the higher runout can be used to offset higher tire radial forces. Tire requires use of a road force machine and a Tech that actually knows what he's doing and cares to do it properly.

Many low end tires have R1H (Radial 1st Harmonic) forces that can be quite high.

Here's a little known fact of the aftermarket tire industry. Many of the the tires that go into the aftermarket for service are actually tires that don't meet Automotive OEM specifications for R1H or other key characteristics. Off brand tires are usually even worse.

The 1st set of tires that come on a new car are likely to be the best tires it will get in its life (as far as R1H, balance, Conicity, etc. are concerned) Going back and buying the same OEM spec tire will likely get you a tire that isn't quite up to OEM spec. Not to say they will be outrageously bad, but they won't be quite as nice as that 1st day off the showroom lot. Not true in 100% of cases, but true more often than not.

[Superhawk996]

As a final resort, one last thing you can do is to find and Old School tire shop that can do balance work on the vehicle.

You'll have a hard time finding one of these guys . . . OSHA cringes. Video will give you an idea of why most shops won't turn one of these loose with a 20 year old kid!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UP97bO-MpU


Honestly you shouldn't have to do this but it will account for other unbalances in the system (rotors, wheel spacers, axles, etc.)